AMD's Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition
by Anand Lal Shimpi on August 13, 2009 12:00 AM EST- Posted in
- CPUs
Final Words
Without a doubt the Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition is faster than anything you can get that fits into an LGA-775 socket at a remotely similar price point. AMD has done its duty well there, the 965 is clearly a better option than the Q9550 or Q9650 for that matter.
As a gaming CPU, it's actually competitive with the i7s. If you exclude the FarCry 2 results, which I hardly believe are representative of most games, the Phenom II X4 965 is easily just as good of a gaming CPU as an i7 in today's titles. Now once you start throwing in background tasks and look at future titles being more threaded then the picture becomes a little more muddy.
Overall application performance is very good from the 965's perspective. It's only in a handful of 3D or well threaded apps where we see the i7 really pull away. The 965 BE is competitive, just not faster.
All in all, I like the Phenom II X4 965 BE. It is a good performer and if you can get the price right then it makes sense. The problem is that AMD is defending a hotly contested segment with this processor at $245.
When it comes down to it, between the 965 BE and an i7 920, I still opt for the 920. The 965BE does have a lower total cost of ownership so the real question is how well does it stack up against the Lynnfield chips. Based on our preliminary results, I'd expect the race to be reasonably close between the 965 BE and the Core i5 750 but the i7 850 may prove to be the sweet spot at only $40 more.
The clear response would then for AMD to drop prices - I believe at $199 the 965 BE would easily remain competitive. The situation we find ourselves in today is that AMD has a good enough architecture to remain competitive, albeit at more affordable price points. Thankfully for AMD's sake, regardless of what Intel does, there's always a price point where Phenom II seems to make sense.
The question is will this be enough to last AMD throughout 2010 before we see a real change in architecture?
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MODEL3 - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - link
Well if it's true that Core i5 750 is going to launch at 6th of September at 196$,then the only option for AMD is to drop the price around what you suggested! (199$)
Traditionally AMD official pricing translates around 5% lower (in actual street price) than Intel equivalent price
(although in the recent years Intel had various questionable tactics like direct rebates to Retailers & to System Builders without a specific sales target - in the Europe region)
I just hope that AMD is clever to understand, that in no way has to release a higher clocked model (975 3,6GHz, & 985 3,8GHz)
before Intel release in Q1 2010 & in Q3 2010 the higher clocked models of i5 7XX (i5 760 2,8GHz & i5 770 2,93GHz) (if this is indeed the Intel future roadmap at 196$)
Already some sites, that are with Intel side can easily fix the testing method, in order the Core i5 750 to appear more powerful than even a future 975 3,6GHz!
The performance difference between Phenom II architecture & Nehalem architecture can have wide variation depending on the testing method!
So if Intel wants, it can influence some sites to use specific methods to declare a Core i5 750 better than even a future 975 3,6GHz!
What good will do to AMD to release a 975 at a 245$ in Q4 2009?
Of cource AMD can price it at at 219$ (20$ difference with 965) but the whole situation is becoming depressing (they are fighting for +20$ for only a quarter until Q1 2010)
Well, i guess they must make everything, in order to survive!
GeorgeH - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - link
"AMD ought to get rid of the Xn suffix and just use simple model numbers at this point."I understand what you're saying, but I think it's the most straightforward processor naming scheme in a long time. You get the architecture, cores, relative speed, and locked/unlocked instantly. Unless AMD is going to stop selling 2 and 3 core chips and never offer more than 4 cores in the consumer space, I say keep the "Xn".
Intel could really learn from AMD here; from your writeup on ix branding, I fully expect to be needing a decoder ring to figure out what a particular i3/i5/i7 really is.
Drazick - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - link
It seems Intel advantage is more about optimization than much better processor, is this assumption true?Why isn't AMD put efforts into that?
Thanks.
Drazick - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - link
It should be easy to create some test scenarios and measure time.Many High End users use those kind of software.
GourdFreeMan - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - link
The problem with benchmarking such packages is that depending on their target application they will not stress systems in a uniform way. Large matrix computation will likely be bound by memory bandwidth, while numeric computation at machine precision will hinge on FPU/SSE performance, and symbolic calculations will largely be bound by integer and branching performance. There isn't one uniform application that is representative of the needs of all scientists and engineers.XtAzY - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - link
I got my i7 920 for $200 at MicroCenter, much cheaper than $280 online deals! This AMD definately does not worth $245!!Griswold - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - link
And how much did you pay for the mobo and triple channel kit, dumbass?Exar3342 - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - link
LOL, your the dumbass. :)6GB triple Channel - (Newegg) $85.00
8GB dual channel (newegg) $95.00
X58 MB - $165-175
AM3 MB $85-120
So you are talking a difference or $40-60, which if you can get the i7 at Microcenter (I was there last week and they had a ton) erases any price differences.
Griswold - Saturday, August 15, 2009 - link
Oh, lets look at the other article anand just put up, dumbass. Your shit doesnt quite add up...rhog - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - link
Since when can you get a "good" x58 for lest than 200?I assume the 200 Bucks is a Mail in rebate price as well. I own 2 i7 920 great processor but hardly any faster at 3.6ghz than a 3.8ghz AMD 955 (at most 20%) which is in line with the "real" 100-125 Buck difference in cost. You can get a really nice Video card upgrade for that money. Don't forget the i7 920 never runs at 2.6ghz but always overclocks itself making it hard to do a good clock for clock comparison. The AMD 965 is better than Core2 and I doubt that the Core i5 will be faster than a Core i7 so they should compete well. Oh, and the Core i5 will overclock itself as well I here as much a 3 mults