The Radeon HD 4850 & 4870: AMD Wins at $199 and $299
by Anand Lal Shimpi & Derek Wilson on June 25, 2008 12:00 AM EST- Posted in
- GPUs
Fixing AMD's Poor AA Performance
Now that we have a new architecture from AMD with improved AA performance, it's time again to look at a comparison of all the different AA modes these cards offer. No new modes have been introduced since the R600 and G80 reviews, but AMD has completely rebuilt their ROPs with special attention to hardware based AA resolve. In R600, hardware resolve wasn't much faster than shader based resolve, but this time around, AA runs blazingly fast whether its on the dedicated resolve hardware or on the shader hardware (since their is so much more shader hardware now even shader based resolve gets a giant boost).
The first thing we will want to look at are the MSAA modes. These are the modes we absolutely recommend for use with AMD hardware as all their other filters essentially low-pass filter the entire image by blending in neighboring subpixels. In any case, the results are very impressive for RV770.
The RV670 at 19x12 was limited in some way other than AA (it really couldn't keep up), but at 16x10 we can get a better idea of relative impact of AA. And clearly the RV770 quite improves fall off with increasing AA levels over the previous generation. One special thing to note is that the RV770 does fall off very gracefully to 8xAA. Since the RV670, G80 and GT200 all have sharp drops in performance when moving up from 4xAA to 8xAA, the RV770 really shines here. In fact, the few tests we did with 8xAA paints the 4870 in a much better light relative to the GTX 280. Remember from our earlier architecture discussion that Oblivion is the game where the GT200 had the largest performance advantage over RV770.
While 8xAA performance is all well and good, the image quality difference is just not enough for us to recommend enabling it over increasing resolution (or better yet, pixel density on LCD panels -- hello display makers). For those with panels that don't go over 1280x1024, it would be better to spend the extra money on a large panel than a $300 graphics card. The application where we see 8xAA making the most sense is on 50+ HDTVs used as computer monitors where the pixels are just plain huge. For the majority of desktop users though 4xAA is where it's at.
We did test the performance of all the other modes as well. NVIDIA's CSAA modes are quite good (they actually improve image quality rather than degrade it), but again, stay away from anything but AMD's "box" filtered AA.
The RV770 actually shows a bigger performance hit from enabling their tent filters than RV670. This is likely because the filters are run on shader hardware in both cases while RV770 has faster hardware resolve that can be used for normal AA resolve. If RV670 resolves "box" filtered AA on the shader as well this would explain the flatter performance in that case. Even more so than the image quality question, the fact that they perform lower really should be the nail in the coffin for AMD's tent filter garbage.
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natty1 - Thursday, June 26, 2008 - link
There's no good reason to pull that garbage. People assume they are seeing raw numbers when they read these reviews.DerekWilson - Sunday, June 29, 2008 - link
i don't understand what you mean by raw numbers ... these are the numbers we got in our tests ...we can't do crossfire on the nvidia board we tested and we can't do sli on the intel board we tested ...
we do have another option (skulltrail) but people seemed not to like that we went there ... and it was a pain in the ass to test with. plus fb-dimm performance leaves something to be desired.
in any case, without testing every solution in two different platforms we did the best we could in the time we had. it might be interesting to look at testing single card performance in two different platforms for all cards, but that will have to be a separate article and would be way to tough to do for a launch.
Denithor - Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - link
In Bioshock in the multiGPU section the SLI 9800GTX+ seems to fall down on the job. In all other benches this SLI beats out the GTX 280 easily, here it fails miserably. While even the SLI 8800GT beats the GTX 280. Methinks something's wrong here.jamstan - Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - link
Egg's got them for 309.99. I'm gonna run 2 4870s in CF. I planned on using a P45 board but I am wondering if the P45s X8 per card will bottleneck the bandwidth and if I should go with an X48 board instead? When I research CF all I seem to find is "losing any bandwidth at X8 versus X16 is "debateable". What I'm thinking is that 8 pipelines can handle 4GBs so if I look at the 4870s 3.6 Gbs of memory bandwidth then X8 should be able to handle the 4870 without any performance hits. It that correct or am I all wet?jamstan - Friday, June 27, 2008 - link
I contacted ATI and they said I was correct. A P45 board only running X8 per card in CF will bottleneck the massive DDR5 bandwidth of the 4870s. If you're gonna CF 2 4870s use an X38 or X48 board.SVM79 - Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - link
I created an account just to say how awesome this article was. It was really nice to see all the technical details laid out and compared to the competition. I was lucky to get in on that $150 hd4850 price at best buy last week and I am hoping the future drivers with improve performance even more. Please keep up the good work on these articles!!!DerekWilson - Sunday, June 29, 2008 - link
Wow, Anand and I are honored.We absolutely appreciate the feedback we've gotten from all of you guys (even the bad stuff cause it helps us refine our future articles).
of course we enjoy the good stuff more :-)
thanks again, everyone.
D3SI - Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - link
Long time reader, first time postergreat article, very informative
looks like the 4870 is the card to get, cant be beat at that price
and yes a lot of posters are reading way too much into it "you're biased waaa waaa boo hoo"
just get the facts from the article (thats what the charts and graphs are for) and then make your decision, if you cant do simple math and come to the conclusion yourself that the $300 card is a better buy than the $650 then you deserve to get ripped off.
joeschleprock - Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - link
nVidia just got their pussy smoked.kelectron - Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - link
a very important comparison is missing. for those who want to go in for a multi-GPU setup, the 260 SLI vs 4870 CF is a very important consideration since SLI scaling has always been better than CF, and the 260 scales very very well.in that case, if nvidia responds by reducing the price on the 260, the 260 SLI could be the real winner here. but sadly there were no 260 SLI benches.
please give us a 260 SLI vs 4870 CF review.