ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT: Calling a Spade a Spade
by Derek Wilson on May 14, 2007 12:04 PM EST- Posted in
- GPUs
Tessellation and the Future
It's no secret that R600 is AMD's second generation unified shader architecture. The Xbox 360 houses their first attempt at a unified architecture, and the R600 evolved from this. It isn't surprising to learn that some of the non-traditional hardware from the Xenos (the Xbox 360 GPU) found its way into R600.
AMD has included a tessellator on their hardware, which is able to take input geometry and amplify it before passing it on to the vertex shader. This is something that Microsoft is planning on adding to future versions of DirectX as well, but in the meantime developers will need to take special steps to utilize the hardware.
The basic idea behind tessellation is in the subdivision of geometry. There are multiple algorithms for handling this process, and the R600 tessellator is capable of adapting to a developer's specific needs. The tessellator can take a polygon as input and break it up into smaller triangles, creating more vertices for a specific object. Taken on its own, this isn't particularly useful, but this concept can be paired with displacement mapping in order to reshape the tessellated polygon into something more like the actual surface a developer wants to represent (this is called the limit surface).
With low polygon models and lots of pixel shaders, normal maps and textures can approximate the look of more complex geometry, but we're always stuck with the very rough silhouette edge around the object. With more geometry, we could also better use pixel shaders to enhance the geometry present rather than trying to create the illusion of geometry itself.
We can't simply send millions of polygons per character to the graphics card. This isn't because the card can't handle the processing requirements, but rather the bandwidth and latency overhead of sending all this data to the hardware is too high. Tessellation and displacement gives us a way of really using the vertex shading power of unified architectures as well as removing the limitation on polygon count created by overhead.
While geometry shaders can be used for amplification and tessellators can be written as geometry shaders, this process is still way too slow on current programmable hardware. AMD's dedicated tessellator is capable of tessellating up to 15x more data and it can work much faster and more efficiently than a geometry shader set to the same task. With the next version of DX bringing tessellator hardware to all GPUs, developers should be able to focus on more interesting uses for the geometry shader as well.
Having this unit makes porting Xbox 360 games even easier for developers targeting AMD hardware. As most hardware still doesn't support the feature, a more general purpose path will still have to be written, but there wouldn't be any reason to remove what's already there. In these cases, R600 could benefit with greater performance than other hardware.
The downside is that it might be difficult to entice developers not already working with the Xbox 360 to touch the tessellator. It is definitely capable of high performance and terrific detail, but spending time on a feature only a small subset of gamers will be able to experience (for this generation) takes away from time spent making the game better for everyone.
We are always happy to see either hardware or software take a leap and create the first chicken or egg, but we just don't see the tessellator as a big selling point of R600. The technology is great, we're glad it's there, but we will really have to wait and see just how much (if any) real value this adds to the product. We'll leave this section on one final note about a tessellator landscape demo that really brings home what this thing can do.
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TA152H - Monday, May 14, 2007 - link
Fanboy? What a dork.I've had success with ATI, not with NVIDIA, and I know ATI stuff a lot better so it's just easier for me to work with. It's not an irrational like or dislike. I bought one NVIDIA and it was a nightmare. Plus, I'm not as sure they'll be around for very long as I am ATI/AMD, although they had a good quarter, and AMD surely had a dreadful one.
Selling discrete video cards alone might get a lot more difficult with the integration of CPUs, and GPUs.
yyrkoon - Monday, May 14, 2007 - link
You are a fanboy, face it. 'I tried a nVidia card once . . .' How long ago was that ? Who made the card ? Did you have it configured properly? Once?! Details like this are important, and seemily/conviently left out. Anyhow, anyone claiming that nVIdia cards are 'junk' has definate issues with assembling/configuring hardware. I say this because my current system uses a nVidia based card, and is 100% rock solid. 'Person between the chair and keyboard' rings a bell.Ask any Linux user why they refuse to use ATI cards in their system . . . You are also one of these people out there that claims ATI driver support is superior to nVIdias driver support I suppose ? If you have truely been using ATI products for 20 years, then you know ATI has one of the worst reputations on the planet for driver support(and while it may have improved, it is not as good as nVidias still).
Yeah, anyhow, ATI, and nVidia both can have problems with their hardware, it is not based 100% on their architecture, but the OEM releasing the products have a lot of effect here also. There are bad OEMs to buy from here on both sides of the fence, knowing who to stay away from, is half the work when building a PC, and probably had a lot more to do with your alleged 'bad nVIdia card', assuming you actually configured the card properly.
I also had a problem with an nVIdia card once, I bought a brand new GF3 card about 7 years ago, and a few of the older games I had, would not display properly with it. What did I do ? I waited about a month, for a new driver, and the problem was solved. I have also had issues with ATI cards, one of which drew too much power from the AGP slot, and would cause the given system to crash 1-2 times a day. This was a design issue/oversight on ATI's behalf(the card was made by Saphire, who also makes ATIs cards). What did I do ? I replaced the card with an nVIdia card, and the system has been stable since.
So you see, I too can skew things to make anyone look bad also, and in the end, it would only serve to make me look like the dork. But if you want to pay more, for less, that is perfectly fine by me.
Pirks - Monday, May 14, 2007 - link
I've got all problems and crappy drivers (especially Linux ones) only from ATI while nVidia software was always much better in my experience. power hungry noisy monsters made by whom? by ATI! as always :) same shit as with their x1800/x1900 miserable power guzzling seriesdiscrete video cards are not going away any time soon. ever heard of integrated video used in games, besides ones from 2000, like old Quake 2? no? then please continue your lovefest with ATI, but for me - it looks like I'll pass on them this time again - since Radeon 9800Pro they went downhill and continue in that direction. they MAY make a decent integrated CPU/GPU budget-oriented vendor in a future, for all those office folks playing simple 2D office games, but real stuff? nope, ATI is still out of the game for me. let's see if they manage to come back with reincarnation of R300 in future.
ironically, AMD CPUs on the other hand have best price/performance ratio, so intel won't see me as their customer. I wish ATI 3D chips were as good as AMD CPUs in that regard (and overclockers please shut up, I'm not bothering to OC my rig because I don't enjoy benchmark numbers, I enjoy REAL stuff like games, and Intel is out of the game for me as well, at least until their budget single core Conroes are out)
utube545 - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link
Get a clue, you fucking cretin.dragonsqrrl - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
haha... lol, wow. facepalm.dragonsqrrl - Thursday, August 25, 2011 - link
Damn you're a fail noob of an ATI fanboy. Time has not been kind to the HD2900XT, and now you sound more ridiculous then ever... lol.yzkbug - Monday, May 14, 2007 - link
Not a word about new AVIVO HD and digital sound features?DerekWilson - Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - link
we mentioned this ...on the r600 overview page ...
photoguy99 - Monday, May 14, 2007 - link
First to be clear and I do not condone the title of this article, there's no need to bring racism into this.But my point is NVidia can and will react by making the performance per dollar competitive for the R600 vs 8800GTS.
Once the prices are comparable, why buy a more power hungry part (the ATI)?
This is one disadvantage they can't correct until the next respin.
DrMrLordX - Monday, May 14, 2007 - link
Based on the benchmarks results, the only reason I can see for getting 2900XTs is if a). you don't care about power consumption and b). want to run a Crossfire rig at a lower cost of entry than dual-8800 GTXs or 8800 Ultras.As others have said, some more benchmarks in mature DX10 titles might show who the real winner here is performance-wise, and that holds true for multi-GPU scenarios as well.